Have you noticed that there is a “Guru’s Club” consisting of several real estate “gurus” who all promote each other’s products and services? Not only that – they all send the exact same emails to you at nearly the exact same time.
The net result is that you get duplicate copies of the same CRAP from multiple gurus. They make very little – if any – attempt to actually assist you in any way (as the example below will show). To the objective observer, it appears that they simply are gunning for your wallet, with no other motivation in mind.
I think a backlash to this type of marketing is likely .
Before I continue, let me make something clear: I don’t have a problem with people selling products to their readers. I do it too – it’s the way that we bring in income to cover the high expense of providing this website and lots of free resources.
I also don’t have a fundamental objection to product launches per se’. If you’re a product publisher, you certainly want to get the widest possible audience for your product, and a wide-scale launch is a great way to make that happen.
But I do have a problem with the complete disrespect that happens to these guru’s subscribers when the guru doesn’t even bother to try to send out anything of value, and instead sends out almost nothing but product pitches. Come on, my fellow real estate publishers: Let’s give our subscribers some value! You’ll find – as I have – you can get a whole lot more value out of your subscribers when you’re giving your subscribers a whole lot more value with no strings attached.
Remember this: If most of what you receive from your “guru” is pitches for the latest product launch, they are showing profound disrespect for you and view you as nothing more than a wallet with an email address.
I’ll now give you some examples of what I mean. I don’t mean any disrespect to these folks, and I’m sure they all have good information to provide. But these stats are prima facie evidence of their regard for you as a source of revenue and little else.
A Real Example:
One particular “guru” has sent me 10 emails during the past week or so. I’m not going to tell you who this is, but you see the subject lines used below, so you can probably find out by searching your own email.
Anyway, here is the date, subject line and topic of each of the most recent 10 emails sent by this guru:
Date: February 4
Subject Line: did you win?
Topic: Promotion of Gerald Romine’s product launch
Date: February 3
Subject Line: Millard Fuller (1935-2009) another good man leaves us
Topic: Paying respects to Millard Fuller
Note: This is the only email of the past 10 that isn’t purely promotional in nature.
Date: February 3
Subject Line: sell houses before you buy them? come on!
Topic: Webinar promotion
Date: January 31
Subject Line: Than Merrill is a dork
Topic: Than Merrill’s Product Launch
Date: January 31
Subject Line: URGENT:how Than makes over 2 mill a year on the internet
Topic: Than Merrill’s Product Launch
Date: January 30
Subject Line: gotta get this to you fast
Topic: Than Merrill’s Product Launch
Date: January 30
Subject Line: Good Morning! Happy Friday!
Topic: Than Merrill’s Product Launch
Date: January 29
Subject Line: WholesalingU kicks off today at 12nn
Topic: Than Merrill’s Product Launch
Date: January 28
Subject Line: life’s too short to get rich slow
Topic: Than Merrill’s Product Launch
Date: January 27
Subject Line: a boatload of buyers drooling at the mouth
Topic: Than Merrill’s Product Launch
So the net result is that literally 90% of the last 10 emails I’ve received from this guy have been purely promotional in nature. And this isn’t the only example. There is a group of about 10-15 of these folks who do almost nothing but promote each other’s product launches, yet make little or no attempt to give anything else of value. This is, as I said a moment ago, very similar to treating you as a wallet with an email address. It’s disrespectful and very short-term thinking.
I am not completely free of guilt from this either. In December, I participated in Jeff Kaller’s launch of his short sale program. I did it because Jeff has some great info that I think is worthwhile. But if I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t. There’s nothing wrong with Jeff or his products or services. In fact, I think they’re great and worthwhile, and I have every intention of continuing to promote him in the future (outside of product launches) because I believe in what he’s doing. But I’ve realized in the intervening period that sending you the exact same promotional material as everybody else is not good for you and it’s not good for me.
And like I said above, I’m not disparaging anyone from selling products. I do it to, and I’m even doing it this week. But come on, guys: Have a little respect for your readers.
You are welcomed to sound off about this below. Thank you for reading RealEstate.BryanEllis.com!
It was scary to see how many of the emails were immediately recognizable. As a foreclosure specialist and real estate agent dealing with REOs, I admit to being on just about everyone’s mailing list.
I had noted in consumer classes I teach this tend toward “cross promotions” or cross pollinating as I call it. It was annoying when I saw it starting some 3 years ago and now it has reached new heights (or lows).
Appreciate you calling this out. I, too, know many of these gurus have good products but credibility is going down the toilet when literally every other day they are touting someone else’s products as the latest and greatest. It does come across as pure money grubbing.
There, my rant is done. For now…
I agree. I know for a fact, since I have a guru in the family, that they get together almost as a team and prey on the newbie investors. I was told that once you have the investing down or at least a good system, to start selling your knowledge, and was told, “selling stuff to the hungry newbies is where the REAL money is”. I have been investing for many years, purchasing with “sub to” and selling on contract for deed or lease options, doing loan modifications and working short sales. My company is doing well now even with all the problems going on around me because I am always studying and trying to learn more. It does irritate me when I constantly get emails from different “gurus” with the same subject line, marketing for the another guru and feel that it is exactly how you said, I am just a wallet with an email address.
Bryan , “Thanks” for your directness and honesty. I , too , don’t
mind someone ‘ pitching ‘ their products to me ; but what I do
find galling is the lead-in “teasers” that say , or at least imply,
that be clicking on the ‘ next ‘ link or page I’ll be given ” free” ,
” secret ” info. Then , when you take the next step , its just
more come-ons leading to a ” purchase ” button.
Since I’ve started on this rant , I’d like to know , in your
opinion , how many of the ” gurus ” make their money
actually buying / selling properties vs. selling courses and
” bootcamps “.
Hi Bryan,
Interesting read for sure. I may also add the “Hype” that is conveyed with all these magical “launches”……………..its either you do it now or you loose out forever……..lol!………..What annoys me terribly is the double/triple emails that are sent to make sure you get the info. In all due respect all I want to do is hit the delete button.
A guy w/ an email and wallet,
Vern
My feelings exactly, this is getting way out of hand.
Harry
I must admit though, learning is the key in this business, and finding someone that will help you with the learning curve can really help put money in your pocket. I started with one investor guru, got an awesome website, they do alot of marketing that brings in leads for me, has all the paperwork ready to go for me and gave me the training I needed. I was buying houses almost on automatic pilot, and really did not have any idea what I was doing at the time. In 18 months, I quit my day job and have not looked back.
Good for you Jim! Nobody can reasonably disagree that education is of primary importance. That’s not what I was writing about. I was referring to what I consider to be the widespread abuse of subscriber lists by sending them incessant promotions (that are identical to what everyone else sends out) with little or no worthwhile content. — Bryan Ellis
Im in total agreement.. Ive noticed the same thing.. every email that i get is someone elses products with no useful info.
I went to L** B***** seminar in Austin in Feb of 07, before the market really changed noticably, and he was selling his course for 15,000 a pop, and they were selling like hotcakes. I think he definitely covered his cost of food, lodging and air fare. Once the market changed, and people stopped buying so much, I noticed the sells pitches really picked up to generate that money.
I believe in naming names, so I’ll forward a few:
Thanks for being specific, Tim. Obviously, I didn’t publish the list of 10 names you wrote because I don’t think its necessary. Everybody knows which of the “gurus” are treating them with proper respect, and those who are not. — Bryan Ellis
The reason they do this is because they’re also internet marketers, and everytime they do a webinar or product launch and you order thru them, they get paid too. It’s just business, Bryan. What I don’t like is how the courses are so incomplete that after you order one, their people offer expensive bootcamps and 12-20,000 dollar mentorship programs to learn the real way to invest. And their respective solicitors will admit this to you. On top of that, you won’t even be mentored by the man behind the product, but by a trainee of theirs. And they won’t jv the first deal or 2 to get their tuition; they want it up-front,. These are the real problems that need to be changed. The Roman’s said it best: Let the buyer beware!
I thought you folks might think this was interesting. Within a few minutes of my posting the above article, I received this email:
Bryan, why are you sending out bullshit like this?
I realize it’s marketing, but it’s BAD marketing.
You’re making the very industry you’re trying
to promote look bad. And between me and
you, you’re not making very many friends out
there.
If I see one more email like this me and all the
other “gurus” who you promote (and are my
best friends) will easily blackball you, delete
your affiliate accounts, and possibly take legal
action as all of our names are trademarked.
I won’t tell you who it’s from, as that really isn’t material at present. But suffice it to say: the “gurus” don’t care much for me, nor have they ever.
But I’ll continue to do my best to give you objective information that doesn’t show inherent disrespect to you.
Bryan Ellis
The reason you get hit multiple times by all the gurus is that the original guru has a prize for the guru that refers the most business. One guru gave access to the list (accidentally) of gurus competing. All the big names were on it. And you could see the number count and who was on top and who was coming up strong. The prize was a brand new motorcycle for the winner and several smaller prizes for 2nd & 3rd places. That’s why you have to purchase the product through their own link. It was funny how quickly the link came down, probably a matter of hours. That guru will probably never get invited to participate in another product launch.
When you really think about it all their doing is tapping into someone elses buyer list to continue building their list. Is that any different than what we as real estate investors try to do? The only difference is the product (real estate vs. information/coaching).
Thank you for saying this . I just hope that the GURU’s will take note. I am sick and tired of all the junk mail. I subscribed to these different Gurus so that I could learn about realestate, instead all I get is JUNK mail from them. Over the past week I have been sending everyone of them “unsubscribe” emails. and now I will be adding in their comment section, “I am *NOT* a wallet with an email address.
I’ve had it with their junk mail camp-pains. Oh yes I am reportig them as JUNK MAIL.
Hi Joyce – May I suggest that you simply unsubscribe if you don’t like what you’re reading in your email? Reporting an email as “junk” if you did in fact subscribe to the list is an inappropriate reaction, I think. — Bryan Ellis
I have been spending the past few weeks deleteing many emails on the same products. Granted many of the products are good. But as you stated. We are being over flooded with emails on the same products.
I should say you have a valid point – somewhat. Question is, if you really think it’s that crappy, why don’t you simply opt out of their list? I’m pretty sure you can hit the “Unsubscribe” button, instead of whining about it.
Brian
I am sure the “gurus” are aware that your readers are influential in the Real Estate community, you provide quality and content to seasoned and newbie investors alike. Even the “gurus” read your blog immediately when it comes out! You should not be persuaded to change by being “blacklisted” ??
It is better to be disliked by people who know your true self, than to be loved for the person, you are not.
Lead captures, sign in’s, passwords, duplicate e-mails its too much- just please show me the property they are selling, so I can let them know if I would like to buy it! Have you noticed that now some sites dont even have a name, contact info…that is my clue they do not have anything substantial to offer.
cant wait to see what your new product is..keep up the good work
Lisa Martin
The Investor Connector llc
Thanks Lisa! I don’t have a new product at present, but I’ll let you know when that changes
And thanks for the note about the “blacklisting” threat – that doesn’t concern me at all. I’ve been “blacklisted” for years already 
— Bryan Ellis
Thanks for your comments – I couldn’t agree with you more – it is way out of hand. I have started opting out. Hopefully the “Guru’s” will see the error of their ways and stop the madness.
Brian, The backlash has already started. My inbox is so inundated with product launch emails I decided to get off every one’s list except two. (Obviously you’re one.) I’m trying to minimize my email inbox so I can focus more on my business. My education budget is thin this year and if I don’t focus on the business there won’t be any education budget in the future. I really suspect others are in the same boat and recommend they dump these gurus also.
Hi Bryan,
Thanks for all your time and TRUTH !
It is a TIME for a GURU BE GONE MOVEMENT !!
That letter you received was funny, I had a feeling you would get one soon. Hey Ill be the first to say that from all these comments your making plenty of friends.
Keep up the great education, its well accepted.
Sooner or later some of you will get that email that says “I give up”
like I often do.
It seems like the credibility for the “gurus” lessens when they are all sending the same thing. It makes you feel like it’s a “conspiracy” to get your money. The products may be fine, and I feel like if I learn at least one thing from the information they give in the process of selling their products (the grand finale of most of the webinars), then it’s worth listening too. I also REALLY dislike redundancy and being “hounded” and have been trying to decide which gurus’ lists to unsubscribe from. Not that they’re “bad” people but it’s just getting old have to sift through which emails to delete and which ones are actually presenting new information.
I was kind of shocked to see Brian’s email about this but am also thankful! It’s making HIM stand out in a good way to us “average people”!
Kim
I thought I should point out one “guru” who did a product launch (he’s still in the middle of it) that actually provided something of real value to the people who opted in to his offer: Gerald Romine. Gerald had this cool program made where you can enter a picture of yourself and some info about your business, and it will create a custom video for you to use to promote your real estate business.
I thought that was very cool. It represents value that people can actually enjoy without spending any money out of the gate. Kudos to Gerald Romine for not merely scraping his client’s wallets.
Bryan Ellis
WOW…it appears it took me two days to finally read this since I was plowing through all the other guru junk mail I receive! Let me change that…use to receive. Like you, I finally just got tired of my inbox being full of garbage so I have opted out of all but three of the ones I receive. Thank you Bryan for always having good quality information when I click to your blog.
jerry
Thank you so much, Jerry – I appreciate that we’ve “made the cut” with you! — Bryan Ellis
You’re right “on the money” with this one, Brian. This viral marketing business has gotten to where once valuable providers of real estate information, syndication, etc. have become just another one to unsubscribe from. It’s frustrating because you don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but the alternative is to spend countless, precious hours babysitting your inbox.
You are still on my “whitelist”.
I appreciate that! Particularly since you and I have had some somewhat vicious discussions on this blog (related to, of course, politics)
Thanks again. — Bryan Ellis
Not only do they think we are just an email with a wallet, they think we are idiots. I mean, one week we are told “this is the system, this is the product, this is the whatever” that will end all of our real estate problems. Then the next week, it is another ultimate way to do real estate that will makes us millions. Followed by another system that promises the exact same thing.
What’s funny, is “the best way to do real estate” product has guest guru’s teaching on that product, then a few weeks later that guest guru is launching his own product, and he has the previous guru teaching on there. Basically they are teaching us the same things on 2 different products that were supposed to be the best way to do real estate.
What happened to the previous products that were supposed to make us gazillionaires? It’s always, the next product that is going to solve all of our real estate problems.
Ridiculous!
Don’t get me started on the time wasting webinars the guru’s all do which are just pitchfests for a product. You have all the guru’s going around in circles doing each others webinars selling their products on each others webinars. Hype! Hype! Hype!
I agree the overabundance of guru product emails is getting out of hand. In the last month alone I have gotten nothing but emails after emails on these products that the gurus are selling.
But the worst ones are the ones that constantly send you emails on webinars about another guru. They will pitch it like you’re going to learn a lot from these webinars but in reality it’s just a smokescreen to get you to buy that gurus product.
You never ever learn anything from these webinars and that drives me nuts.
I totally agree. I am also going to opt out of every one of the so called gurus list except one that I believe is giving me good information. It is too confusing and I am sick of it. I am so glad someone finally spoke up about this. I hope they wise up.
Amen Brian,
A complete waste of my time. I am sure everyone in this situation understands the time it takes to go to your daily mail account and hammer on the delete buttton.
It really takes away from constructive things that I need to get accomplished.
Yes, all they care about is how they can convince you to order from them instead of their buddy guru cause they offer a better pile of outdated bonuses.
Over the last several months I have recieved a real education on the moral and ethics of people in this industry and am finally learning who to stay clear of……most of them
I vote for John Alexander, Bryan Ellis and Sam Bell.
As my small list grows I will keep you all posted.
Tim Treon
D&T Acquisitions LLC
wholesalehomes2000.com
Wow, what an interesting post, Bryan! Thanks for being so straight forward and bringing some really excellent points to light.
As a fellow REI blogger, I stand along side you, disturbed at how many of the “gurus” and other industry colleagues treat their subscribers. I won’t say that just b/c they’re promoting a product launch that they necessarily fit the “bad guy” bill – but many of them are down right too lazy to make any real effort at building an honest to goodness relationship or deliver any real value.
But that’s already been covered – just wanted to say I agree completely.
However I have a few other thoughts to throw in the mix here though. Maybe it’ll just stir the pot more, I don’t know. But I’d like to challenge everyone here to consider this…
1) If you don’t like what you’re seeing in your inbox, just hit “unsubscribe” at the bottom and be done with it. You only have so much “mindshare” at any given time, and what you allocate it to MATTERS. So you should be choosy and pay attention to those who earn your respect, deliver authentic value in addition to any sales promotions, and seem to be “real” and resonate with you.
2) Stop whining! No one’s forcing anyone here to stay on their email list. Seriously, just unsubscribe and be done with it. Please. Your ongoing negativity is only dragging you down.
3) Don’t make the mistake of assuming that just because someone has something else to offer you for sale, they must be “another one of them dang scamming gurus”. As Bryan said, there’s nothing wrong with selling your information, or in trying to be as effective/persuasive as possible in doing so. It’s all about the integrity of the sales process you choose to use.
4) When you see the same “canned” emails going around, it’s definitely a drag and implies another “me too” marketer has you in his/her sights. However keep in mind that in our REI businesses we’re all interesting in using “proven models and systems” whenever possible, and reinventing the wheel as little as possible.
For example, if I hear a friend has a postcard that’s converting motivated sellers like crazy, and he’s willing to let me “swipe” his copy for my own marketing, why the heck would I NOT want to do that? Is there an integrity issue at hand here, if I”m using proven material someone else has written rather than writing my own? No, of course not.
And honestly I’m not sure if I see how that’s different than a promoter using someone else’s proven, pre-written email copy.
The problem is what it FEELS LIKE and seems to imply from the potential customer’s perspective.
For example, I really liked the idea of Than’s Wholesaling University. I personally interviewed him at length about it, and once I understood it became a fan and supporter. But since how my subscribers would feel if I offered them the same “canned” emails, I elected not to. And instead I did my best to create something unique and of authentic value that might really help anyone interested to make a logical buying decision.
So rather than shoving this product down my subscriber’s throats, I asked myself, “Knowing many of my folks will be sizing this up, what might I be able to do to assist in their due diligence process?”
And friends, that’s the bottom line here for me. I urge you, as you size up who you’re going to keep listening to and who you’re not…are they having a conversation with themselves along these lines? Are they caring enough for you and the relationship of trust they aim to have, to provide authentic value…even if it means making fewer sales than if they tried to shove it down your throat?
Ok, I’m rambling now. But I do have a question to pose for anyone else who may feel inclined to post another comment…
Who DO you trust/follow? In other words, rather than complain any more about those you don’t care for, why not take a second and share (for everyone’s benefit) who you ARE still listening to and enjoy receiving information from?
Just an idea.
Thanks again, Bryan, for another riveting post.
…jp moses
Good thoughts, JP. I agree. I don’t have a problem with anybody promoting their products – it’s part of the game, and I don’t think that our subscribers are inherently disdainful of it either. But when Guru A, Guru B, Guru C and Guru D all send the same email to you every day (twice a day, frequently) which promotes Guru X, it begins to feel like none of them respect anybody with whom they’re trying to do business.
And that’s too bad, because I suspect that more often than not, the product being promoted is worthwhile. In the email I sent to my list to publicize this post, I specified four names (because they’ve all been involved in recent product launches: Than Merrill, Gerald Romine, REIWired, and Jeff Kaller. I know Jeff and Gerald personally and really like them, and happen to think they have excellent products. I don’t know Than or the people behind REIWired, but I have absolutely no reason to think ill of them. But it is to me at the very least questionable to use the currently accepted model for promotion. Currently, the only question being asked is: “How much money can we make?” I propose the addition of this consideration: “At what cost?” — Bryan Ellis
Hey Bryan,
Great post man!
You know as well as I do that there are both good people and not so honest people in this industry and I can see why so many people are confused as heck w/ who’s for real and who’s just out to promote the heck out of everything they come across whether its a great product or not.
Anyhow, I agree and disagree with what people are saying in their comments.
Totally agree that it’s plain lazy and not respectful at all when someone just copies and pastes and email (the same email 50 other people send out) to their list for a product. At that point the “guru” is just being lazy and not providing any extra value to the email they’re sending.
I’m not a “guru” and hope I never get classified by that name… I’m an investor and started my site to provide good, honest, resources without all of the hyped up pitches at every turn. Yes, we do let our subscribers know about certain products… but we do it in a way that adds value to the overall process… whether it be an honest review… a rebate in case the person does buy the product, etc.
What I don’t disagree w/ from some readers comments is that they would mark the emails as “junk” or “spam”. As you said, it’s inappropriate to do that if you truly did “opt in” to receive their emails at one point in time. If you don’t like whats being emailed to you… just unsubscribe and you’re good to go.
Anyhow man… great post… and I think in ’09 and beyond we’ll see a lot more transparency in the industry and those who are genuine and providing value and entertainment will rise to the top… and those who aren’t providing true value will drop out of sight.
One last point… several people mentioned how they hate it when they get 10 emails the same day from 10 different “gurus” about the same product… would you be upset if it was just 1 email from 1 guru about that product? Probably not. From the “gurus” standpoint… they have no way of knowing whether you are on 15 other peoples lists or just theirs… so if they feel the product is worth buying they’ll of course send an email to you to let you know about it. Don’t be upset if you get 10 different emails about the same product from 10 different gurus… just wade through the crap and unsubscribe from the ones who aren’t providing you value with their emails… that’ll solve the tidal wave of emails you’ll get during those big fancy launches.
Good luck in ’09!
Cheers,
- Trevor
Hello Bryan,
This is Gerald Romine and I’m one of the “Guru’s” that you mentioned above and we’ve worked together in the past too! I see that your post above at 14:57 you had kind words to say about our cool tool that creates custom video for free for anyone. Thanks for that.
Concerning the product launches I wanted to comment that our launch is different from many of the launches out there because throughout the launch we have focused on giving away a really cool tool and some hard core training videos. Anyone that’s taken the time to watch the videos can see that real ‘how to’ information was covered that will assist investors with their real estate investing. In fact, we’ve had over 1300 comments from our training videos which is a real testament to what we are doing and shows the value we are providing.
Gerald Romine
Thanks for your thoughts, Gerald. I’ll bet you understand where I’m coming from, even if you don’t agree with me. Having said that, I give you my most sincere best wishes for your product, which I am sure is an excellent tool for real estate investors. — Bryan Ellis
Well let’s see if Pepsi has a new commercial and plays there commercial on all the major networks do they customize commercials for each network? No, that would be ridiculous. They send a unified message that markets their product or service.
There is no difference here. The product is the product and the stations are the affiliates. Now I am sure that the affiliates can customize the message if they want but it is better to market a unified message as to not confuse the consumer.
The real question is the product everything it says it is and that for the consumer to judge.
Going as far as calling it disrespect is a real big stretch. I am sure if all the emails are different there would be someone out there that would say watch out for all those different emails going around because they are really marketing the same product. You say they are being so transparent. Ok, would you rather them be sneaky?
I think it is refreshing to get one message and let the consumer opt-in and then see if if they like the message, do they want to buy and if they do, then utilize the information and enjoy the product.
Are you going after Pepsi next?
Your comparison is plausible but not rational. You see, the television networks don’t pretend to have a personal relationship with the viewers. They don’t address the viewer by name. There is no pretense whatsoever of the TV networks being anything other than a commercial mechanism. And you know what? We all know that’s the way it is, and we’re fine with it. I guess another approach the gurus could take would be to clearly state: “We don’t have any pretense of relationship with our readers, we are just here for the money.” That would be honest, and that’s exactly what the TV networks do. — Bryan Ellis
Brian,
You got it right, I guess we all get the same e-mails. I love the freebies
$995 program absolutley FREE! Plus we’ll include a free…… value $1595…… Plus 2 hours of my mentoring $9,000 Value…. Plus…. you get the picture, they forget to let you know it’s only $195 per month. Great marketing without a doubt. They all get a piece of each others pie. It’s business I understand but your right hold on to your wallet.
Around a year ago I was vigorously pursued to investigate and participate in what, refreshingly, was called a “no pitch zone” seminar by a supposedly angry, fed-up, guru… “angry” at all the so-called gurus that were only out to drain your wallet with education and seminars, etc. I fell for his hook (to the tune of $2000k, “discounted”) and went to a “pitch free seminar” where there were, admittedly, many great ideas from a bunch of educators who would be required to give away their own product.
Many of these products were pretty good, but I had no idea how much these each of these guys were going to market (I’m now on everyone’s email list) each other’s products and (I’m sure they had this planned) their individual “product launches” for the next and BEST way to use their expertise, via there own online mentoring product/service.
The emails are wearing me out. I would like to receive an occasional tip or idea that would enhance their particular method of investing, but, unfortunately, I have to sift through all the “affiliate greed”, suck-up emails promoting someone elses product. If they want to educate; they should EDUCATE on “What is working/not working in MY own investment business” .
Unforunately, “incestuous” is the only good word that works for these guys and, it’s a shame even some very seemingly “principaled” newer gurus have fallen in the traps of the affiliate-income-back-scratching-greed vs. education.
They are losing my respect daily.
I can’t count the number of conference calls I have been on where the guru rambles on and on for about an hour about his rags to riches story and how his product will make you a millionaire by this time next week and says absolutely nothing useful. The only piece of information that they give you is a website or a phone number to make a purchase. Been there, done that, not doing it again. The backlash has started already .. with me at least.
Bravo! Finally, someone with the cahones to say that “the emperor is naked!” Yes, the greedy one track hucksters will be pissed off, good, I’m glad! It’s about time someone called them on the what Bryan is writing about, disrespect for the customers.
Yes, we are all in it to make money, but come on, endless huckstering and hyping is only going to kill the golden goose!
So thank you Bryan for calling out these people, these folks needed the wake up call before they ruin it for everyone else.
It’s time for all of us to wake up and smell the coffee!
steve
This is a subject that really angers me. Experienced investors, I’m sure are already aware of these a**holes, but they prey on everyone they can without any moral discretion. I’m sick to death of all of them.
I’ve made a couple of major mistakes due to market timing, and went looking for advice as to how best to turn my situation around. I tried contacting 3 of these “gurus”, only 1, Trump University, even bothered to speak with me, however the advice, was overly simplistic, and commonsense, which I had already thought of myself. I was looking for guidance in areas that I DON’T know. I’m not an experienced investor, but not a total idiot either. Then I contacted Dean Graziosi, you know, that late night huckster! Well after answering numerous personal questions, it was determined that I was a “good candidate” for their personal training, was then put on the phone with their Supervisor. They immediately wanted $14 thousand dollars, and when I laughed and said thanks, but no thanks, he immediately began degrading me, saying I was not serious, and was too fearful,and flat out told me I was not ready to turn my life around. it was a TOTAL BULL***T, pushy, hardcore sales pitch. When I told him I saw through what he was trying to do and didn’t appreciate it, he changed his tune and offered this ‘course’ and personal training for a mere $3,000. I just hung up, if I were a man I’d like to have punched him in the nose. It was a total insult to any intelligence I have left.
I’m a female veteran on disability. The third attempt, was to Robert Kiyosaki, & wife Kim Kiyosaki. I tried email, letter, phone call. Not even so much as a response from anyone. ALL any of them want to sell, is their superfluous bulls**t, I hope everyone wises up and they fade away bankrupt !!
Doing internet research, led me to your site, and a couple of other really good ones, that have no bad reviews. I sincerely appreciate the information you provide, I do expect to pay for advice, but it better be good advice, not charging thousands of dollars for simple commonsense lecturing..
I appreciate your information. Keep up the good work.
Hey Diana – I’m sorry to hear about your difficulty. As a purely legal matter, I need to tell everyone that Diana’s opinions (and the opinions of all commentors) don’t necessarily reflect my or my employer’s opinion about any of the people in question. (In fact, I know several of the people at Trump University and think they do a pretty good job.) Hang in there – at some point, you’ll find somebody that can help you, and with whom you are comfortable. — Bryan Ellis
Hello,
I cant believe all that I have just read. It has been making me insane with all the JUNK emails from these people. I agree completely with you Bryan, and also like word for word with Joyce Tatasch 2-4-09 12:44 and also dmeier104 2-4-09 13:27. I have been deleting like crazy and unscribering from all this mass emails. Thats why I’ve always enjoyed your emails. You dont try and sell me. Thank you.
I appreciate your emails with information, not sell-pitches.
Thanks again.
Victoria
YES, I TOO WONDER WHY SO MUCH EMAIL OF THE SAME THING IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME TO DO EMAIL THESE DAYS BECAUSE OF ALL THIS BUDDIES/PROMOTIONS
I wanted to give you an update… I sent an email to a few educators who have gotten caught up in this guru sharing system, letting them know that I like being on there email list and I wanted them to be aware of the dislikes. (refer to above case study) and I received a reply from one saying “ummm I dont know what your talking about” and then this one:
I really appreciate you sending this to me.
Yes there are a lot of speakers including me that promote others.
Since this blog post many of us have already had conversations about this.
I plan to offer more content and training without selling something on every email.
I really appreciate your feedback!
Thanks again,
know I dont feel like I need to share with you who these guru’s are, thats not the point , the point is is that with a little effort the good ones will stay good.
Thanks
THANKS-STAY THE COURSE-i CUT MANY OFF NOT TO LONG AGO
A guru that I gave alot of money to be in a maters program and after almost 3 years with no updates to the changing times unles you spend the $ to go across country to another class, now wants me to try to get into his coaching program If I qualify it only cost $7997 or close to that-won’t get any more of my $
bob in Illinois
You are SO RIGHT ON. After heavily looking into ways of ‘getting rich from the net’ I found myself on more and more email spams from about 8 or so people. Then I started receiving more from their ‘affiliates’ also pushing the original peopls merchandise. All promised that they were the real deal and would show me how to make money. It funny that at the bottom of your article there is an ad for P****** E**. His program is SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS. I was so disappointed in it. It was nothing. How to stick illegal signs up on street corners and ask if people want to sel their homes that are in probate. His original hype was so extreme that I planned my future on it. Its nothing. Yet its on your page—is that just a pay per click ad outside your control?
I’m afraid so. It’s possible to block particular URL’s from advertising here through Google’s advertising program, but then they just go and register a new domain to get around the filtering. For the record: There are only three categories of recommendations we give concerning “guru’s” and or products: (1) Familiar with the guru/product and recommend it; (2) Familiar with the guru/product and offer no recommendation; and (3) Not familiar with the guru and no recommendation. In the case of the “guru” you cited, he falls into category #2. — Bryan Ellis
All the other ‘gurus’ are just cross selling each others stuff and giving our partial information. You always have to pay more for theirs or others services to complete the puzzle, and the main puzzle pictures is just getting others with stars in the poor eyes to do the same thing you did. I have piles of CDs, megabytes of links, etc. I dont have the money to pay PPC and mass marketing or the time to try and build 600,000 opt in emails so I can try to be an affiliate for all these clowns.
Wow Brian,
I know exactly who you are talking about in this post. I’m apart of the same list, and I’m also on some other list that are along the same lines. It’s a bit overwhelming. lol
I agree that you need to offer value too!
Brian,
Not to change the subject. What do you think of Noveau Riche, have you heard of them? They have come to my area hitting hard with their real estate school and recruiting.
Thanks for the info Brian
Launches are a subject I’m torn over–as I’ve had one, helped with some, and received emails about them all from multiple sources.
When I “launched” my ebook last year, I was able to find thousands of subscribers for my blog & newsletter. “Non-gurus” have benefited from this. Now that I have a list, I feel pressured to reciprocate and help my “buddies” out as well. I’ll still help with some, but will keep it low-key and not send out 7-10 emails about them.
The downsides of receiving launch emails is that they can be overwhelming.
The downside of helping with launches is that there is literally one every week, and if I promoted them all as they want, I would do nothing but send out launch emails every other day with no helpful content of my own.
I don’t mind getting promotional emails myself, as it’s the price I pay as a subscriber for getting valuable content sent as well. But when the content ends, so does my subscription.
One thing about launches, though. They’re usually preceded with a free giveaway of some kind (sometimes reports or blueprints with really good information in them) so I get a lot from those items even if I don’t buy the product they’re selling later.
Bryan,
I have mixed feelings about the cross promotion from “gurus”. If it wasn’t for cross promotion I probably would not know about a large majority of the gurus. Granted, too many of the webinars that I attend are not more than a “pitch fest”. However, I usually can grasp at least 1 valuable nugget from each one.
While Than Merrill does a tremendous amount of cross promotion there was a time several months ago that he gave 2 series of training webinars for no cost. One of the series was on Marketing that has proven to be extremely valuable to me and my business. I learned a lot of Web 2.0 tips from his staff that is getting me good (not great) visibility on Google. The best thing about it is that it didn’t cost anything.
However, I was tremendously impressed by the amount of valuable information you gave on your webinar concerning Web 2.0. I was able to utilize several of your tips to further enhance my Google presence. Now, if I had a solid week to do nothing but get it all together then I’d be pretty well set. I just wish that I was at a point financially to purchase your marketing program. I know which gurus that I will utilize when I start making money; and you are at the top of the list. I’ve come to realize that marketing is the #1 most important thing when it comes to business and real estate investing. The technical stuff is easy but if I can’t buy or sell because no one knows about me then I’ve wasted a lot of time and money.
Therefore, I see some value in the cross promotion. But there are some gurus out there who don’t really try very hard to deliver a high value product. I’m glad to say that you are one of them.
Wow! Right on the money with this one Bryan.
JP Moses and Trevor Mauch are two who in my opinion are unique and honest with the folks who subscribe to their list. They seem to endorse and evaluate any new product honestly without jumping on the canned multiple emails bandwagon or shoving it down your throat like others do.
The solution for me was like several have said here already; I unsubcribed/opted out from any list I felt was spammish and a waste of my time.
Bill Lassiter
Thanks for your comments Bill. I agree with you about JP and Trevor – good guys, both of them. Bryan Ellis
What is a newbie investor to do? I may regret saying this but I think that the more a newbie investor spends on their education/training etc., the greater the chance that they will be successful. Even if the training is a load of crap, they will be so motivated to earn their investment that they will continue to do whatever it takes to succeed. So even though I know most of the programs out there are worthless, I still think it’s a good idea for people to invest in their learning– if only to connect with others who are doing the same and to be part of a community of people who want to succeed. Sometimes, that alone is worth the price of admission.
I’d gotten tired of all the e-mails, especially the ones with outlandish or silly subject lines. Then, beyond that, the body of the e-mail would make promises that wouldn’t be delivered when clicking on the link.
So, basically I look at the subject line and the body of the e-mail and rate it against whatever’s being offered. I’m not rating the product itself, just the marketing. However, I think it’s fair to say that if the marketing is deceptive or inaccurate, one deserves to be a bit more cautious about the actual product.
And, as some of the other comments here say, a lot of this stuff just seems designed to milk the newbies for all they’ve got. I’ve bought my fair share of products, and I go to maybe 3 REIA meetings a month, and at most of them there’s another guru pitching his $14,000 (but just for tonight, for the first 15 sign-ups, only $1,295) program. I leaf through most of the display binders and I’d say maybe 75% of the time the stuff is crap. It’s too basic, or poorly written and confusing, or clearly a poor transcription of the guru rambling into a recorder. And how many times have I heard: “All you need is one transaction, and you’ve more than paid for the program”?
I also share the frustration of some of the respondents here regarding the waste of most webinars. I’m willing to sit through a 15 minute pitch if I get 75 minutes of useful information. But what I don’t like–and what happens most of the time–is 10 minutes of somewhat useful information mixed in with 80 minutes of hype and promise.
Having said that, there are a few good webinar promoters out there. And there are some “gurus” who really provide excellent information via e-mail. And there are some gurus who have legitimate, helpful, weekly conference calls. (Funny side story: I bought one very reasonably priced program dealing with lease-options. It was really quite good. A while later, I posted a question on the bulletin board on his website and referred to him as a “guru.” He politely disagreed, stressing that he was only a successful investor who’d developed a program and was hoping others would benefit from it. And his response provide good, useful suggestions.)
In brief, I don’t automatically reject these sales pitches and offers. But I do approach them skeptically.
Anyhow, good post.
I agree. I get over 300 emails/day in my other email. the Majority!1 is from course promoters and sellers pitching a “gotta get now” product. I’ve unsubscribed multipe times, (which is time consuming and a waste of my and my assistant time), Only to have them all back within a month… at Most!!
I’m sick of it. The worst offenders I simply delete and never bother to read. Its not really a solution as my time continues to be wasted by these people. I’ve even emailed them and Told Them to stop or I’ll unsub from their list.
It an empty threat when they can somehow get me back on their list within a week to a month. Do these people buy names or share their lists or ???
I need a special ‘guru promotoer’ blocker! LOL
I, for one, believe that marketing is about to make a big shift.
All of these “product launch” models (the mechanics of which are similar in nature) are starting to lose impact and will start to fail and fade as the general public crave to do business with more genuine and authentic businesses that can truly add value without the marketing “hype.”
Unfortunately it’s the newbies that suffer the most because for the most part, they don’t know any better. I suspect that most established business owners are so “done” with all this disingenuous, over-done buffoonery.
P.S. Forgot to mention that we are just around the corner from the height of the “Launch Season” in internet marketing. Caveat emptor (Buyer Beware).
It seems like everyone wants money. How do you tell the honest ones and dishonest ones?
I feel the same way when it comes to Donald Trump’s educational services. None of Trump’s services seem to have any value once you have it in your hands, but it’s a hell of a promotion to sell it to you using the proverbial carrot to string you along; which by the way is what his books do as well.
Have you ever read his book “How To Get Rich”? Well don’t bother, it was a joke. All of Trump’s books are nothing, but fluff ESPECIALLY when you compare it to “Think and Grow Rich”.
I have also been unsubscribing majorly this week AGAIN, as the gurus like stated here have gone NUTS, just plain GREED! Sick of ALL of them! IF in the future I think I might want to get something from them, in hopes it is useful and reasonable, and I SUGGEST this to all folks and I am going to do it also—get a “SPECIAL” email just for them, then you can go in just hit delete quickly all of them pretty much at once and DO not give them YOUR real email address! Because they will blasts and clutter/junk it up! You can also go in and set filters and that will help alot. Yes, GURUS today turn my stomach, as most are “false” prophets and don’t practice what they preach, or why would they sell such high dollar stuff to “newbies” who are cash poor??? That is a NO BRAINER!! I advise newbies to hang out at Bigger Pockets, REI tips, connected Investors and such sites and AVOID the boot camps UNLESS you plan to Join the ranks of the gurus and BE ONE of them, like the traveling circus! Have you been to one lately-what a rip-off!! Have you looked up the definition of the word GURU? Interesting, not the association I would want! Oh and really beware of the ones that proclaim now the religion mode-WOW, ouch for sure! God knows the true heart and the camel with the eye of the needle!
Bryan,
So glad I discovered your site TODAY!! While you may not get rich with all the BOOM products out there, not as rich ain’t so bad, does not equate with GREED (guru), so I am PROUD to say I “know” you not to be a guru! You have impeccable taste and are ONE of the few, the proud, not a gurus on the net-THANK goodness! And as JP said, just hit unsubscribe, of course some are nasty and still do not let you unsubscribe with their trickery. They just give Real Estate and investors (like some Realtors) a BAD name, like the peddling snake oil sales people, the circus and used car dealers! Oh, well, they have to eat too,huh if that is any justification! But you are like a true breath of honest fresh RE air, much needed and I plan to see more of you-as you truly pay it forward! May you be blessed.
Bryan, I stumbled across this page and am so glad I did, for the past year and one half I have sat back and witnessed one after another so called guru peddle their wares, they are in the product business not the real estate biz.
I would like to show you something you might of value when you have a minute please email me.
I came across Jim Brooks’ comments, crediting one of the earlier gurus with having given him his start in real estate, and I felt nostalgic for the “good old days” I never knew; when there were just a handful of gurus to choose from, and they delivered useful, content-rich information!
As a “newbie” with a (very small) wallet faced with a daunting number of real estate gurus vying for my limited funds – how DO I separate out the knowledgeable, conscientous individuals – those who will give me good, substantial products that will truly help me start out – from those who will simply pitch more products with little substance?
I am savvy enough to overlook the “get rich quick” schemes touted by some. I am willing to learn how to do my homework, read the books and learn the “due diligence” required by the industry. I even go to the extent of checking the gurus themselves out! (Whenever I receive yet another email pitch, I check reviews and whether there are any consumer complaints on the individual.) Yet, I am still confounded by the sheer number of gurus, the overwhelming number of products – and the promises made.
Sigh…..
yes this does come to be a big let down with all the hype and all the same emails and it does make you feel like a wallet and not a subscriber for this reason I have not signed up with any theses so called gurus although there is an investor out of tampa bay fl who has really grabbed my attention ( not mr ely) and I have had the pleasure to speak with this gentelmen and felt very comfortable with him he does not claim to make you rich besides that would be up to the individual and
along with the help of your mentor this just may be attainable
so mr ellis if you can be of some help please do
thank you
Bryan,
I enjoyed your comments,which I find to be very true.I resently purchased a product only to see today the release of a new product that looks like just a spin off of the other which is Fliping.Of cource its getting harder to do and looks like this should be just an upgrade to the product I bought. But no its a new stand alone product ?? Just to get more of my money and I already pay a monthly fee to be a member. Boy do I feel sick………..!I dont have money to waste I have a family to support. Maybe we should just sell products? That seem to be the way to go.